Nautilus - Apply Permissions to Enclosed Files Non Functional

[siabost]

Hi Roasted,

I think I have a rather sad admission to make here - I'm in a bit of a Linux enclave here. Work PCs & most friends comps are dominated by Wins & Macs!

Thus I haven't had the opportunity (and as there is only user on my Ubuntu 9.10) to see with my own eyes what happens when a CD burned file is dragged onto a different user's desktop. I have only my friend's eyes to tell me what his video file problem is. Since then I've phoned him and he's given the location of the file as /media/cdrom0/... - i.e. he's still got the CD in the drive and as it's a CD-R so that's why he can't delete it! I don't blame him - I should have checked out the basics first!

Just did a quick test with a data CD here &, sure enough, while the file is on the CD it has owner as root. As soon as I drag it to my desktop I gain ownership of it. As my set-up is the default set-up re ownership & permissions that will also be my friend's set-up. And that's a relief!

Jason may have burned the files to the CD, but that's to the CD. When you bring files from any media (such as a CD) and drop it to your system, your SYSTEM now has control of that file. That file is therefore controlled by the user of the system. Since administrator was the active user who dragged + dropped the file on the desktop from the CD (therefore, "creating" it) then administrator gets assigned as the active owner of that file.

I fully agree with the logic above - that's what I was worried wasn't happening!

And I also agree it would not be a good idea to have the default set-up changed via the GUI - I didn't want my friend delving too much into the Terminal at this early stage. But as it stands there's no need.

Apologies for wasting your time, but thanks for the information.

As I said, my friend is absolutely delighted with his Ubuntu & his compatriots (originally sceptical - interestingly, full of erroneous preconceptions re Linux) are becoming a little jealous!

One successful convert - only 95%ish of the rest to go...

Thanks

[Roasted]

Wasting? Naw. I'm happy to help where I can. Like I said, I don't view Ubuntu as hard - just remember, it's just very different! Once you get the jist of it you can understand what the OS is thinking, which is pretty damn cool.

Just remember this forum exists for these exact reasons.

Also - about your friend - For his learning sake, did you explain to him that deleting the file off of /media/cdrom0 is the same as deleting the file off of the cd rom drive in Windows? No matter what OS - that doesn't work.

Happy Ubuntu'ing!

[markackerman8@gmail.com]

I am still frustrated that recursively changing owners permissions in Nautilus is NOT working like it says even ubnder sudo, and this is such a major hassle for newbies, and even me a user for 1 1/2 years, arghhhh

[XubuRoxMySox]

Try installing PCManFM from the repositories. It's a sweet little lightweight file manager (ordinarily part of the LXDE desktop, but it's modular).

Highlight the folder you want to edit permissions for, then choose Tool and then Open Current Folder as Root. From there you click on File, then File Properties, and choose permissions for all the files in that folder.

Works for me.

-Robin

[mazz0]

Sorry, but I can't let people get away with saying that this isn't a but because the button is only there to change permissions and not ownerships.

The tab in question exists to change ownership and permissions, from a UI perspective it's treating them as one thing, that's why they're grouped together in one tab, so it's obvious that you should be able to apply recursive ownership from there just like you can apply recursive permission changes. The existing functionality is counterintuitive and just awful UI. We're forcing people to use the terminal just to change ownership of things, and we're not even informing them that they need to do so - it looks like they should be able to do it from that dialogue and that it's simply not working, only a Linux expert can figure out why it doesn't work. Bloody AWFUL UI.

This is absolutely a massive usability bug. It's part of bug 1, for a start. If Ubuntu is to be "Linux for human beings" we can't force people to use the terminal just to change the ownership of something, can we? And if we do, at least make it obvious they need to do so - don't have a button that looks like it should do somethign when it actually doesn't (although obviously it should).

</rant>

[Roasted]

Sorry, but I can't let people get away with saying that this isn't a but because the button is only there to change permissions and not ownerships.

The tab in question exists to change ownership and permissions, from a UI perspective it's treating them as one thing, that's why they're grouped together in one tab, so it's obvious that you should be able to apply recursive ownership from there just like you can apply recursive permission changes. The existing functionality is counterintuitive and just awful UI. We're forcing people to use the terminal just to change ownership of things, and we're not even informing them that they need to do so - it looks like they should be able to do it from that dialogue and that it's simply not working, only a Linux expert can figure out why it doesn't work. Bloody AWFUL UI.

This is absolutely a massive usability bug. It's part of bug 1, for a start. If Ubuntu is to be "Linux for human beings" we can't force people to use the terminal just to change the ownership of something, can we? And if we do, at least make it obvious they need to do so - don't have a button that looks like it should do somethign when it actually doesn't (although obviously it should).

</rant>

In all honesty, if you know enough about file permissions to even have to change ownership of a file, you're certainly adept enough with computers to use the terminal. If you're not, then you really shouldn't be messing with file ownership in the first place.

No matter how you slice it, basic users will stick to basic things, while advanced users want a certain way things are laid out and a certain scheme of permissions and ownerships laid in place.

The fact that I cannot change ownership in the GUI does not bother me. What bothers me is you cannot change the group recursively. Granted, it's nice that PERMISSIONS are changed, but I'd like to see the group changed too.

One nice touch I saw with Kubuntu over Ubuntu (Dolphin vs Nautilus) is that in Dolphin, you can set the GID in the GUI, meaning you can force a group on any files/folders written inside the folder you're adjusting the setting on. Nautilus requires the terminal for that, and that's something that IMO should be in the GUI. It's a nice touch. +1 Dolphin.

Setting the GID is especially useful for someone like me who has all sorts of users who back up data to my computer. Having a set GID means I can link all users into 1 group and force that group with rwx permissions on the folder. Therefore, all users can truly share files without restrictions. Again, no biggie, but it was nice to see Dolphin had it built into the GUI under "advanced permissions."

[mazz0]

I disagree - given the unix style of file ownership and permission, changing ownership of a file on linux, for example a file copyed from somewhere where it was ownded by a different user, isn't that uncommon, nor that advanced, and it certainly isn't so advanced that it warrents use of a terminal.

[tinmanjim]

I'm semi-literate using Ubuntu (Karmic); when forced to use the command line, I can usually figure out fairly simple things given time, patience, and good search terms, but mainly I would prefer to use a GUI interface, as that minimizes the learning curve and command memorization issues. Also, believe it or not, I'm by far the most "computer savvy" person among my friends and family; trust me, outside of your hand-coded world it's a pretty common phenomenon.

I've got a few "economically challenged" friends with older hardware that Windows has problems with. I'd like to set them up with Ubuntu, because of it's stability and (more or less) user-friendliness.

The only reason I hesitate is because when I go to set them up, the twin issues of permissions and ownership come up. I can, of course do some searching and experimentation to take care of this... then when, in a few months, it comes up again for someone else, I've got to do the same searching and experimentation; a bit easier and faster this time because I remember some of the terms that worked the last time. However the odds of remembering the specific commands and the order in which to use them is vanishingly small.

So the question really boils down to: Is Ubuntu to be the reserve of "Command Line Geeks", or would we rather see market share increase? If we're constantly touting the benefits of Linux to our non-geek buddies, wouldn't it make sense that these less-than-savvy folks be able to actually use the system without spending the months or years the devotee is willing to take to learn all of the ins and outs of the CL?

It seems to me that it might be a good idea to include in the installation a button that allows the installer to set comprehensive permissions for the "Home" directory, or at least make it so that the button so well hidden at the bottom of the permissions tab of the properties dialog could perform a similar function. After all - if you don't choose to use it, how does it affect you, and why do you care that someone else finds it easier (more user-friendly) to have less stringent security?

I agree that on a laptop or in a dorm setting these might be serious concerns, but when setting up a desktop inside a private dwelling I think some of the security just might be a bit of overkill: thus my call for the option at install time.

Rant complete...

[Roasted]

I disagree - given the unix style of file ownership and permission, changing ownership of a file on linux, for example a file copyed from somewhere where it was ownded by a different user, isn't that uncommon, nor that advanced, and it certainly isn't so advanced that it warrents use of a terminal.

Maybe not to you, but I work in a school district where I have to help out teachers and all staff with computer problems. You'd be surprised what kind of issues I come across that were ID 10 T errors.

Although I'm a terminal junkie, I still like the ease of doing things in the GUI. And although Dolphin on KDE has more options (Advanced Permissions) set up in a more practical manner in the GUI, as opposed to Nautilus on Gnome, KDE still has its limitations too - proving that Linux as a whole decided, perhaps some of these permissions DO need to remain at the terminal level.

[mahavishnu]

I hate to dig up an old thread, but I can't help but to want to offer a response to this.

Let's say you have a folder known as /media/storage, and you want storage + everything inside to be owned by fred:fred

sudo chown -R fred:fred /media/storage

The -R is key - it means it'll change all files/folders inside to those exact ownership. I can change ownership and permissions of all files/folders on my backup drive - all 380gb worth - within 10 seconds.

works perfect here !!
didn't think it was so simple, thanks.